Rhossili update 26/5/11 discussion

[Steve Watkins]

Hi all - Steve Jones has asked me to post Sian's email response for all to see.

I quote for easy reference "You can of course fly along the Warren, again provided that it is not used for landing or takeoff.  We tenant it as farmland not as a flying site."

From: Musgrave, Sian
To: Steve Jones (Email deleted by admin)
Cc: Nick Roberts ; Kearsley-Evans, Alan
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: Club forum query answers


Hi Steve

Thanks for your call.  I have now had a chance to look at the forum on the club website and can answer some of the queries or at least clarify things maybe!

The original discussion between Nick and I was about the £2 fee and managing the day visitors by changing the licence (and fee) to incorporate day visitors.  However, it seems things have moved on!
So some points below in answer to the forum discussions:

Ownership:
NT do not own the dunes at the far end of the beach.  I attach PDF maps of the area showing our ownership.  We therefore have no control over people's use of this area.  I would add though, that as NT is the licensing body that allows PG to fly at Rhossili, the use of the surrounding area may have an effect on the NT's relationship with its neighbours/other landowners.

Access:
The Warren is farmland (rather than common) and as such does not have open access to the public, unlike the Down behind.  There are some public footpaths running across it so people should be sticking to these - which in my experience they generally do. (I will forward you a map from Rights of Way when I get it.)

Tenancy/farming:
Just to clarify - we own the Warren (except the very last field adjacent to Hillend caravan site) and in the past it has been under a tenancy which has now been terminated.  We have never had it sublet from farmer to another farmer - this is against the tenancy conditions.

At the moment we manage the land, but it will be out to tender shortly to local farmers for a tenancy for grazing and hay.  We monitor this tenancy and can retract it at any time should any conditions of the tenancy be breached, as we do with any activities we license.

Designations:
The Warren is part of the Rhossili Down Site of Special Scientific Interest - and it is designated here specifically for the geology as it is the remnants of a solifluction terrace from the last ice age - its the soils and deposits and the layers that they are set down which are important. 

We are concerned at any use regarding the front face of the Warren.  It is extremely unstable, and suffers from regular slumps and slips.  This in turn is threatening the access track along the bottom of the Warren.

We recently had an incident where a member of the public was stuck in a mudslide which originated from the Warren face, and had to be rescued by the Coastguard. We would not encourage any activity which could further destabilise this area.

Use by PG:
We recognise the fact that you can't always land back on the Down, and have always agreed that you can continue to use the beach as a landing site.  It is only recently that we have been aware of people using the beach and the dunes to take off.  We will be monitoring the situation, but in the meantime, please do not use the front face of the Warren to launch from the beach.

You can of course fly along the Warren, again provided that it is not used for landing or takeoff.  We tenant it as farmland not as a flying site.

Hope this clarifies a few things mentioned on the forum.

if you need further info, please let me know

Regards
Sian

Sian Musgrave, Head Warden

[Wattsy]

 

[Stevie G]

 

[Ben.]

 

[gareth.pawan]

Have been reading this discussion with some interest. I've said it before and I'll say it again. PG and HG add to the 'Rhossili experience'. Why don't we as a club build on this?
Just stand in the car park or sit in the pub garden or near the bench overlooking the bay, and listen. People are often entranced by our activities. They see the magic of people spiralling around the sky or floating about silently like large colourful butterflies and they see the magic that we experience when we fly. The NT see and know this too. Why not put together something that can be displayed in the NT house or shop or outside their building that informs the general public about our sport?
Last week someone flew off and above Everest on a tandem paraglider and went on to do a mini XC.
A HG pilot held a world record for flying for 12 hrs up and down the Rhossili ridge.
Most people would probably be really interested in this info and remember it long after they had visited Rhossili. So why not make the most of this by raising the profile of what we do, help ensure we remain a fixed and positive part of what happens at Rhossili and work jointly with the NT to promote a great little place and a great little sport?.

[GerryL]

for those of us that actually fly from the beach i think we need to persuade the nt that we dont do damage to the warren by walking part way up from the beach to launch. the damage and land slip is being caused by rain water drainage off the hill and raised beach which finds its own way down to the beach, and by the live stock which is there for 9/10 ths of the year we have all seen cows on the beach and wow how did they get down there? they clamber down the warren and not just one either, they are a herding animal so if one goes the others follow. and lets not forget they each weigh 500kgs plus and they have to get back up.
once again we need to talk over the option of being allowed to launch from the beach via the sand slope.
i am sure if we all do this properly we can keep control and police the correct useage of this area, the alternative is people are going to fly it anyway as they do now and there will be nobody who can police it not even the nt.
as for making public the emails between nt and us, yes lets do it but please remove the nt contacts email from view as unwanted and un solicited email will be counter productive.

[SteveJ]

Hi Steve W.
The problem with taking-off from the beach (Harrier jump-jet style) is that at some point someone will end up using the sand wall (seaward facing side of the raised beach) as a launching platform; even in Barry's video, you'll note that he is actually standing on the very sand wall which is in question.
I don't think that actually soaring above the raised beach is the issue, it's how we get airborne above it, with-out causing landslips/erosion.
I have asked Sian for permission to post her e-mail on our web site for members to get a better understanding of the NTs concerns.

[Stevie G]

 

[Steve Watkins]

personally I am telling you that I would like you to/we would like you to designate a space on the raised beach so as not to so called ruin any other part/s of the raised beach as what the general public/and that nature is doing? (how do you control nature?)

Stevie this is an excellent idea. I'm sure if all the raised beach was looked at there must be a section that could be used and designated for a launch pad.

Steve J - Are the NT saying we cannot fly the dunes, even if we do not launch on the raised beach or are they saying we cannot fly it at all?

The reason is, it seems possible (I havent done it personally) to launch from the flat area in front and catch the lift band? If this was acceptable to NT could this be explored as an option?

As long as the raised beach is not touched then paraglider pilots are not physically touching or damaging the raised beach.

[Stevie G]

ahmmm... jeez guys..what a load off round and round in circles we go... this is my planet...I do as I wish without harm to no one... we try in peace...If you wanna get legal about this...then I exercises my right as the Strawman and Freeman...  I am and do not give you consent or standing to tell me what to do... ( look it up in the Black Laws dictionary)... lets not give way to where and what we can do in the name of peace... (so long as no one is harmed)  ... shall we put the shoe on the others foot...OK NT... personally I am telling you that I would like you to/we would like you to designate a space on the raised beach so as not to so called ruin any other part/s of the raised beach as what the general public/and that nature is doing? (how do you control nature?) please work with us...it really is not that difficult...it will benefit all around... peace to you x... there is also more to raise to the benefit of all! we have a wonderfull whole UK part to benifit us all...

[Dan]

Guys ive put this on my "UK Speedflying (Speedfly Junkies)" group on face book as i know a number of the guys on there use Rhossili in high winds, as do i, but are not club members. Many are local skydivers from the Swansea drop zone who use Rhossili when its to windy to jump. One of them is also posting the rules on the skydiving club web site to help.

Cheers

Dan

[SteveJ]

Hi Dave,
The problem re the car park landings has, hopefully, been solved; a visit to the car park manager and wider publication of the dangers concerned seemed to have worked.

Re. launching on the sand wall/dunes. The video on u-tube, which Nasher asked the author to remove, unfortunately showed wheel barrow-fulls of the stuff being collapsed/eroded by the actions of just one pilot's take-off manoeuvere, it was quite amazing to see the destruction caused by one person's folly.
Not sure how trying to resolve this problem is going to go. The NT are our 'landlords' so to speak.

All,
Re NT boundaries. As a rough guide NT land ownership extends northwards to highest point on the northern-end of Rhossili Down, near the old radar station (concrete structure on north end of ridge) and then on a line running perpendicular to this , down to the LW mark. The raised beach restriction runs along the full length of the NT land; from below the Pimple to below the Radar Station ruins.
The NT land also extends along the cliffs to the south, as far as the fields (known as the vile) run.

It been some time now (2006) since Rhossili last came under scrutiny. Strangely in 2006,  two of the elements of the licence which were in breach of, were the £2 fee by visiting pilots and issues connected with the raised beach. A bit of Deja vu.

I shall bring the Club's site's file re. Rhossili along to Thursday's meeting for all to view.

[Dave T]

The idea that we are eroding the sand at high water mark is utter nonsense. The wind does a far better job than any human activity at doing that. And the wind also puts it back again as part of a natural cycle. I can see how we could cause erosion to some of the wider gullies if used for launching but that aside, fail to see how we could be causing more problems than the livestock and the rest of the public.  As long as the pilot's feet are on the sand with enough room to move backward on launch without moving up the grass, I don't see a problem.  I'd be more concerned about people landing back at the car park - though that seems to have been less of a problem recently.

[Wattsy]

I dont also want to brake any rules as I have always tried to abide by them. I was always told the way to take off on the dunes was to walk your wing up the dunes, then take off. As long as you dont take off/ stand  the raised beach that is OK? This is how everyone takes off when flying the Raised beach? How else can you take off???

[barrya1]

I honestly can’t see how the NT has an argument on this matter regarding flying the dunes, for me to honestly respect this decision I would expect no public aloud anywhere near the dunes however this is not the case, every time I have been down Rhossilli I have seen groups of people climbing on the dunes or just chilling on the dunes. I don’t want to break any rules and don’t want to fly in places with the threat in the back of my head of whether we are allowed to fly or not, I just want to enjoy it.

Please have a look at this short YouTube video of a few of us flying the dunes on Tuesday… I think it shows a very good representation on how we respect the landscape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYm4O11HjJA

I think this should be shown to the NT as I can’t see anything wrong? 
Comments please